Trying To Explain Morality – A Discussion With Bob

Let’s discuss morality a little bit. Where does it come from?

Morality discussion outline:

• Commitment
  • Be open minded to the existence or non-existence of God.
  • Be honest, especially with yourself. Be willing to say the Emperor is naked.
  • Be logical, really. Don’t reject a logical conclusion because it is uncomfortable.
  • Follow the truth wherever it leads. Don’t redefine or lie about the truth because you don’t like the conclusion.
• Morality is most logically explained by the existence of God.
  • You can’t have a law without a lawgiver
    • If there is no government, there is no speed limit.
  • Morality cannot come from within humanity.
    • Morality cannot come from the individual human mind.
      • If that were true the person who rapes and kills a 6 year old girl cannot be said to be wrong because his morality comes from his own mind.
      • That is not honestly true as we observe our world so morality cannot come from the individual mind.
    • Morality cannot be decided by society or humanity as a whole.
      • This does explain how things appear to be moral at some time and immoral at another.
      • For this to be true, a broad morality can only be achieved by popularity of a moral standard within society.
      • If we accept this, then we must accept that whatever society find popular is “truly right” or “truly wrong” whether we personally agree with it or not
      • Therefore, if 99.9% of people decided that raping 6 year old children was right, it would be “truly right”.
      • If we are honest, this simply is not true. We all know that even if every single person in the world said raping 6 year olds was right it would still be wrong
    • Therefore, morality cannot come from humanity at all since that would allow for the possibility that raping 6 year olds was truly right.
  • Morality comes from a source outside of humanity.
    • If morality cannot come from within humanity, it must come outside of humanity.
    • But then what explains the appearance that morality has changed or evolved?
      • It is not morality that has changed, but humanity has matured.
        • When a 6 month old baby bites it’s mother’s shoulder the mother pulls it away and says “No, no”.
        • When a 2 year old bites its mother it is sternly reprimanded and likely punished.
        • When a 20 year old bites people, it will likely be put in an institution.
        • Biting an innocent person is wrong in all cases but the individual is judged differently based on their maturity.
        • Humanity as a whole is like the person. Humanity is surely more mature now than it was 200 years or 2000 years ago, so we are judged differently.
        • Slavery, raping a 6 year old etc. etc. were always wrong and will always be wrong but how humans are viewed regarding it could change as humanity matures just as an individual is judged differently based on their maturity.
  • If morality comes from outside humanity, and a law must have a lawgiver, who or what is the lawgiver?
    • God is a reasonable answer unless you have closed your mind to that possibility.
      • Morality is very informational driven and appears to be intelligent. It does not appear to be random at all. It has purpose and intentionality, both are the result of intelligent thinking, not physics or chemical reactions.
      • If God exist and created the universe, we would expect his morality would surely be perceptible throughout conscious people, even if they didn’t recognize it as God.
      • By itself this may not be sufficient to decide God exist, but it is a good argument. If one finds other logical arguments, (which I do, the most persuasive of these are within science) then this is even more reasonable.
    • If you reject God regardless of any logic or evidence (rather close minded) then you must choose one of the following.
      • Morality originates within humanity and therefore raping a 6 year old could be “truly right”.
      • There is no such thing as “truly right” or “truly wrong” so you can’t say raping a 6 year old is wrong.
      • Science simply hasn’t discovered the source of morality yet.
        • In this case you are simply making science your God and you are expressing faith in it. You are, quite literally, practicing a God of The Gaps mentality.
        • Your faith is no different than a theist faith.
        • I submit that this is exactly what is done by most scientist and the faith required to make science your God, upon logical analysis in other areas, is far greater than the faith required to believe in an intelligent, personal God.

Questions to ask yourself, but you need to be honest with yourself with no predetermined unacceptable outcome.

1. Do I believe we can have laws without a lawgiver? If there is no governing body, can there be a speed limit?
   1. Yes – Stop here , you are not being logical or honest.
   2. No – Go on to the next question
2. Do I believe that morality comes from the individual, which would mean that I cannot say another person who rapes a 6 year old is wrong?
   1. Yes – stop here, you have nothing more to think about.
   2. No – Go on to the next question.
3. Do I believe that morality comes from society or humankind as a whole? This would mean that if the great majority of people decided that raping a 6 year old was good, it would be truly good whether I agreed with it or not.
   1. Yes – stop here, you have nothing more to think about.
   2. No – Go on to the next question.
4. If morality did not come from humanity, what is the most probable source?
   1. Random chemistry created it.
   2. It was created by an intelligent being because it appears to be purposeful, intentional and informational which are all accepted as indicators of intelligence.