Hey all,
I do not feel that it is my duty or even in my best self interest to post or talk about opposing religious views but I was pointed to this page by a friend. Reasons to believe in religion, the story behind it, and the ‘evidence’ for it are much more intriguing and submersive that the reasons and evidence against it and for this reason it is very difficult to changes ones beliefs on the topic at the developed age, even if a person were to desire to “see both sides of the story”. I also think that religion is very important for many peoples live and is immeasurably important to society as a whole despite my personal beliefs that no God exists. For this reason I will not go on and on about why I believe the New Testament is a lie but only let the facts to likely let you discard as false without giving a second thought about it or thinking about it from a non believers perspective (how can someone search for the truth about god when loving and living your life ‘through’ him has been your life goal? It’d be like me researching weather or not the big Red Machine was the best team in baseball history, I’ll always land on the same side of the fence).
I was raise catholic and attend a catholic college where this past year I took a scripture class. This is what I pulled from it when discussing the new testament.
The books were written: Matthew: c. 50 to 70s Mark: c. 50s to 60s Luke: c. 59 to 63, or 70s to 80s John: c. 85 to near 100, or 50s to 70
0 of the authors of the Gospels are thought to be eye witnesses of anything Jesus did.
Matthew uses about 85% from the Gospel of Mark Luke uses about 65% from the Gospel of Mark about 95% of the Gospel of John is not in any of the other 3 Gospels
Mathew and Mark both draw from a source “Q” supposedly. Which is an anonymous source that can not be justified as reliable in any way.
I do not have this stat in my notes but it was taught to us by our scripture professor that christianity was a dieing religion. Jesus was an Outkast to his own religion (Judaism) and most of his generation was now dead. It is thought that between 20-40 Christians existed in the world by the time that the Gospels were written. They were very desperate pieces of writing.
Also, I did not read your full post but skimmed it and the part about “Lies are told for personal gain, but the authors were destroyed by their writing.” The authors were destroyed by it? They are 4 of the most popular names/people in the entire world. Everyone has a desire to be remembered long after their death and its what some people live their entire life for. They were the 40-50AD Jobs, Zuckerberg, or Gates. Not always loved, but the writers of the gospels will be remembered even longer than the fame today. That’s a lot to die for, when in reality, not a lot was back then.
Also the part about if the writers were making it up they wouldn’t have made it so hard and complicating. I think we can all agree the bible leaves some loose ends. It can sometimes even be like a ball of strings all tangled together. Whats easier to untangle; 4 strands, or 400? In being so complex the bible gains a lot of interest and also a lot of unintended answers to questions maybe not even considered at the time.
It just doesn’t add up to me.
Live the Life you Love
Other Posts In This Series
- If I Were God: I would have made it impossible to think the New Testament was a lie.
- God Made It Clear That The New Testament Is Not A Lie
- The New Testament Is A Lie Because…# 2
- The New Testament is a lie because…# 1
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 1 – You Can’t Prove Anything
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 2 – Whether It Is A Lie Or Not Is Irrelevent.
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 3 – Just because it isn’t a lie, doesn’t make it true
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 4 – The conspiracy would have been immense and incredibly difficult to concoct and maintain.
- Are The New Testament Writers Lying? : A Point By Point Discussion
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 5 – No liar would have had Jesus appear to women first.
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 6 – The writers would not have any discrepancies in their stories.
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 7 – The writers would not have made themselves look so bad.
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 8 – The writers would use "Jesus said…" to solve their problems.
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 9 – Liars would never have created a religion that was so difficult to believe or follow.
- Is The New Testament A Lie: Point 10 – Liars would never imagine such a twist of belief.
Thomas,
Many of your points are very disputable. Here we go:
1. You: “0 of the authors of the Gospels are thought to be eye witnesses of anything Jesus did.”
Me: Wrong. Both Matthew and John were in his immediate circle of 12 disciples. That made them eyewitnesses. You need to review John 21:24.
2. You: It is thought that between 20-40 Christians existed in the world by the time that the Gospels were written. They were very desperate pieces of writing.
Me: Immediately following Jesus’s ascension to heaven the followers returned to Jerusalem. At that moment there was a group at that time of about 120. Read Acts 1:15. After the Pentecost (that was 50 days later) the holy spirit descended upon the group. Following this event Peter addressed a large crowd and about 3000 people in the crowd became new Christians. See Acts 2:41. After that point so many people converted to Christianity that Jewish leaders (Saul) persecuted and killed Christians. Your point that only 20-40 Christians existed at the time of the writing of the gospels is laughable. Saul (who became Paul) had traveled all throughout the gentile nations converting thousands, including thousands of Jews to Christianity.
3. You: “Lies are told for personal gain, but the authors were destroyed by their writing.” The authors were destroyed by it? They are 4 of the most popular names/people in the entire world. Everyone has a desire to be remembered long after their death and its what some people live their entire life for.”
Me: The problem with your argument is that you can’t get that many people to die for a lie. 10 of the 12 Apostles were martyred, whereas Judas committed suicide and only John (and a gospel writer) died of old age. Here are the deaths of some of the new testament authors:
a. Matthew (one of the 12 apostles): Killed by a spear
b. James (one of the 12 apostles): Killed by a sword
c. Peter (one of the 12 apostles): Crucification, but upside down
d. Paul (originally he was Saul and he persecuted and killed Christians): Unknown
e. Jude: Crucification
f. Timothy: Stoned
There is no way that many people if they knew something was a lie would stand their ground for. There is no way that this many people would die for a lie, especially when they knew they would have to face these kinds of tortuous, gruesome deaths. No book in all of antiquity has as many original and copied manuscripts as the bible. If the bible was really a lie, why wouldn’t we have found copies of the Jewish religious leadership (the Sanhedrin) written reports that would have countered the as you call lies of the new testment authors? None have been found because if the Jewish religious leaders wrote it they would have been the ones telling the lies.